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	<title>Comments on: New possibilities for drought tolerance</title>
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	<link>http://www.biofortified.org/2010/06/new-possibilities/</link>
	<description>Stronger plants, stronger science, and stronger communication.</description>
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		<title>By: Eric Baumholder</title>
		<link>http://www.biofortified.org/2010/06/new-possibilities/#comment-4968</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Baumholder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 15:15:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.biofortified.org/?p=3430#comment-4968</guid>
		<description>James,

When &#039;outcrossing&#039; occurs, genes do not move between plants as individual entities. They move in &#039;bundles&#039;, so to speak, which is why conventional breeding is so difficult. 

So for instance, a crop with the WUE trait would also have delayed/no dehiscence, that being the tendency to scatter seeds at maturity. Dehiscence is a valuable trait in a weed, because it&#039;s an essential part of propagation. Dehiscence in a crop makes it a non-crop -- at maturity, the seeds are scattered, making harvest well-nigh impossible. 

There are other deleterious traits in crops that would outcross in the gene-bundle. The odds of natural selection preserving one particular transgene out of the entire background are staggering.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James,</p>
<p>When &#8216;outcrossing&#8217; occurs, genes do not move between plants as individual entities. They move in &#8216;bundles&#8217;, so to speak, which is why conventional breeding is so difficult. </p>
<p>So for instance, a crop with the WUE trait would also have delayed/no dehiscence, that being the tendency to scatter seeds at maturity. Dehiscence is a valuable trait in a weed, because it&#8217;s an essential part of propagation. Dehiscence in a crop makes it a non-crop &#8212; at maturity, the seeds are scattered, making harvest well-nigh impossible. </p>
<p>There are other deleterious traits in crops that would outcross in the gene-bundle. The odds of natural selection preserving one particular transgene out of the entire background are staggering.</p>
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		<title>By: Ewan R</title>
		<link>http://www.biofortified.org/2010/06/new-possibilities/#comment-4966</link>
		<dc:creator>Ewan R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 13:47:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.biofortified.org/?p=3430#comment-4966</guid>
		<description>The tough thing about getting any WUE trait to work is getting it to work without the negative response in normal water conditions - my guess is that this may well be relatively species dependant rather than a one size fits all type of affair, so my guess would be that a trait made to work in one species (through promoter shennanigans and possibly even protein engineering) may not be optimal for another species - assuming this is the case it would be unlikely to see the trait prosper in weed species (regardless of associated traits linked closely enough to drag it down anyway) unless it retained some activity in drought conditions, and drought conditions prevailed for more than a few generations (which may be the case in some areas the WUE trait would be designed for with climate change in mind)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The tough thing about getting any WUE trait to work is getting it to work without the negative response in normal water conditions &#8211; my guess is that this may well be relatively species dependant rather than a one size fits all type of affair, so my guess would be that a trait made to work in one species (through promoter shennanigans and possibly even protein engineering) may not be optimal for another species &#8211; assuming this is the case it would be unlikely to see the trait prosper in weed species (regardless of associated traits linked closely enough to drag it down anyway) unless it retained some activity in drought conditions, and drought conditions prevailed for more than a few generations (which may be the case in some areas the WUE trait would be designed for with climate change in mind)</p>
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		<title>By: James McElroy</title>
		<link>http://www.biofortified.org/2010/06/new-possibilities/#comment-4957</link>
		<dc:creator>James McElroy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 04:22:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.biofortified.org/?p=3430#comment-4957</guid>
		<description>Agree with Eric that &quot;It will be very seldom that a crop will have genes which favor weediness.&quot;  The record has countless examples, perhaps corn being the primary. But unclear why positive water use efficiency would necessarily &quot;flow with other traits that would doom it as a weed&quot;? And why even bring up dehiscence? Of course most traits that favor crop production don&#039;t do well in wild, but water utilization? What species (plant or animal) would not favor the incorporation of such a trait (unless it had a negative response to normal or excessive water conditions)? Perhaps I&#039;m missing something here, if so, please let me know.

Anastasia:  Never address your writing to the worry-worts. Why bother? That last section weakened your writing. The way it&#039;s included after references and &#039;thanks&#039; is particularly awkward.  

Say Hi to Kendall for me and tell him to get a new earring.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agree with Eric that &#8220;It will be very seldom that a crop will have genes which favor weediness.&#8221;  The record has countless examples, perhaps corn being the primary. But unclear why positive water use efficiency would necessarily &#8220;flow with other traits that would doom it as a weed&#8221;? And why even bring up dehiscence? Of course most traits that favor crop production don&#8217;t do well in wild, but water utilization? What species (plant or animal) would not favor the incorporation of such a trait (unless it had a negative response to normal or excessive water conditions)? Perhaps I&#8217;m missing something here, if so, please let me know.</p>
<p>Anastasia:  Never address your writing to the worry-worts. Why bother? That last section weakened your writing. The way it&#8217;s included after references and &#8216;thanks&#8217; is particularly awkward.  </p>
<p>Say Hi to Kendall for me and tell him to get a new earring.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Baumholder</title>
		<link>http://www.biofortified.org/2010/06/new-possibilities/#comment-4947</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Baumholder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jun 2010 20:08:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.biofortified.org/?p=3430#comment-4947</guid>
		<description>It will be very seldom that a crop will have genes which favor weediness. Green Revolution wheat had improved yield but less biomass -- the trick was the semi-dwarf trait, which in the wild would be best described as &quot;stunted&quot;. 

Other crop traits such as dehiscence do not survive well in the wild. Generally speaking, a good crop makes for a lousy weed. A WUE trait would flow with other other traits that would doom it as a weed. Perhaps after many generations in the wild under natural evolutionary pressures the WUE trait would single itself out, but we&#039;re talking a long time here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It will be very seldom that a crop will have genes which favor weediness. Green Revolution wheat had improved yield but less biomass &#8212; the trick was the semi-dwarf trait, which in the wild would be best described as &#8220;stunted&#8221;. </p>
<p>Other crop traits such as dehiscence do not survive well in the wild. Generally speaking, a good crop makes for a lousy weed. A WUE trait would flow with other other traits that would doom it as a weed. Perhaps after many generations in the wild under natural evolutionary pressures the WUE trait would single itself out, but we&#8217;re talking a long time here.</p>
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		<title>By: Ewan R</title>
		<link>http://www.biofortified.org/2010/06/new-possibilities/#comment-4942</link>
		<dc:creator>Ewan R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jun 2010 18:17:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.biofortified.org/?p=3430#comment-4942</guid>
		<description>Me either - its near incomprehensible to me why a plant that does amazingly awesome things in terms of getting bigger than everything around it then has a yield that you&#039;d expect from a 1950&#039;s hybrid - whereas in general (afaik) when breeding for improved yield you can generally take improved mass accumulation (be that dry matter, fresh weight, height) and use it as a pretty fair basis for judging how yield will look.

One possibility is that a plant which has a transgene operating during vegetative growth which improves vegetative growth will have the same transgene operating during reproductive stages - increasing vegetative growth, which isn&#039;t a good thing.

However, if I could explain (to any degree of certainty) the lack of correlation for transgenics which generally appears to be the case for non-transgenics, I&#039;d be making a lot more money than I am right now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Me either &#8211; its near incomprehensible to me why a plant that does amazingly awesome things in terms of getting bigger than everything around it then has a yield that you&#8217;d expect from a 1950&#8242;s hybrid &#8211; whereas in general (afaik) when breeding for improved yield you can generally take improved mass accumulation (be that dry matter, fresh weight, height) and use it as a pretty fair basis for judging how yield will look.</p>
<p>One possibility is that a plant which has a transgene operating during vegetative growth which improves vegetative growth will have the same transgene operating during reproductive stages &#8211; increasing vegetative growth, which isn&#8217;t a good thing.</p>
<p>However, if I could explain (to any degree of certainty) the lack of correlation for transgenics which generally appears to be the case for non-transgenics, I&#8217;d be making a lot more money than I am right now.</p>
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		<title>By: Anastasia Bodnar</title>
		<link>http://www.biofortified.org/2010/06/new-possibilities/#comment-4941</link>
		<dc:creator>Anastasia Bodnar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jun 2010 18:12:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.biofortified.org/?p=3430#comment-4941</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t understand why dry matter would correlate with yield for everything unless its transgenic. Please fill me in!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t understand why dry matter would correlate with yield for everything unless its transgenic. Please fill me in!</p>
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		<title>By: Ewan R</title>
		<link>http://www.biofortified.org/2010/06/new-possibilities/#comment-4939</link>
		<dc:creator>Ewan R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jun 2010 17:57:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.biofortified.org/?p=3430#comment-4939</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve started looking at growth conditions in papers now practically before I skim the figures - doesn&#039;t necessarily invalidate any of the results just tempers how much meaning you can pull out of them.

Also on yield - I think (though don&#039;t know) that dry matter accumulation generally correlates pretty well with yield, but this has always fallen apart in transgenics - although you only have to be wrong once to change the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve started looking at growth conditions in papers now practically before I skim the figures &#8211; doesn&#8217;t necessarily invalidate any of the results just tempers how much meaning you can pull out of them.</p>
<p>Also on yield &#8211; I think (though don&#8217;t know) that dry matter accumulation generally correlates pretty well with yield, but this has always fallen apart in transgenics &#8211; although you only have to be wrong once to change the world.</p>
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		<title>By: Anastasia Bodnar</title>
		<link>http://www.biofortified.org/2010/06/new-possibilities/#comment-4938</link>
		<dc:creator>Anastasia Bodnar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jun 2010 17:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.biofortified.org/?p=3430#comment-4938</guid>
		<description>I get the impression that most people think the Roundup resistance being found in weeds is due to the actual gene from the crops, when in reality the weeds are just evolving their own resistance. So I think it&#039;s important to emphasize that that sort of gene flow CAN NOT HAPPEN unless the weeds are sexually compatible with the crop.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I get the impression that most people think the Roundup resistance being found in weeds is due to the actual gene from the crops, when in reality the weeds are just evolving their own resistance. So I think it&#8217;s important to emphasize that that sort of gene flow CAN NOT HAPPEN unless the weeds are sexually compatible with the crop.</p>
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		<title>By: Anastasia Bodnar</title>
		<link>http://www.biofortified.org/2010/06/new-possibilities/#comment-4936</link>
		<dc:creator>Anastasia Bodnar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jun 2010 17:49:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.biofortified.org/?p=3430#comment-4936</guid>
		<description>lol well, I have no experience with yield testing so I probably shouldn&#039;t be reaching anyway. Thanks for correcting me. Hm I didn&#039;t notice that the light levels were so low (I&#039;ve done very little incubator work). I hope the researchers are working on a plant that&#039;s more comparable to crops in more normal conditions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lol well, I have no experience with yield testing so I probably shouldn&#8217;t be reaching anyway. Thanks for correcting me. Hm I didn&#8217;t notice that the light levels were so low (I&#8217;ve done very little incubator work). I hope the researchers are working on a plant that&#8217;s more comparable to crops in more normal conditions.</p>
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		<title>By: Ewan R</title>
		<link>http://www.biofortified.org/2010/06/new-possibilities/#comment-4935</link>
		<dc:creator>Ewan R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jun 2010 17:37:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.biofortified.org/?p=3430#comment-4935</guid>
		<description>Given experience of dry and fresh weights complete inability to correlate with yield in transgenics I don&#039;t share your optimism in that respect, I also wonder to what extent light level impacted the results - 75umols looks low to me (unless I&#039;m messing up my light levels etc - used to working at 1000+ and still being disappointed that this is lower than you&#039;d see in the field) - what&#039;s the general consensus on what&#039;s needed to provide optimal &quot;field&quot; conditions for Arabidopsis (ie the photosynthetic machinery is working hell for leather) could this be a case of dry matter accumulation being such that the plant can&#039;t possibly use all of the available CO2 anyway - in which case closing the stomata would be a great idea, whereas in relevant light conditions - one big disappointment in a lot of corn work I&#039;ve read recently is the spectacularly low light levels that get used (400umols of light to me is practically a carbon starvation level for corn), I wonder if this also applies to arabidopsis, and if so to what extent (probably less so as C4 plants tend to require higher light intensity)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given experience of dry and fresh weights complete inability to correlate with yield in transgenics I don&#8217;t share your optimism in that respect, I also wonder to what extent light level impacted the results &#8211; 75umols looks low to me (unless I&#8217;m messing up my light levels etc &#8211; used to working at 1000+ and still being disappointed that this is lower than you&#8217;d see in the field) &#8211; what&#8217;s the general consensus on what&#8217;s needed to provide optimal &#8220;field&#8221; conditions for Arabidopsis (ie the photosynthetic machinery is working hell for leather) could this be a case of dry matter accumulation being such that the plant can&#8217;t possibly use all of the available CO2 anyway &#8211; in which case closing the stomata would be a great idea, whereas in relevant light conditions &#8211; one big disappointment in a lot of corn work I&#8217;ve read recently is the spectacularly low light levels that get used (400umols of light to me is practically a carbon starvation level for corn), I wonder if this also applies to arabidopsis, and if so to what extent (probably less so as C4 plants tend to require higher light intensity)</p>
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